Missed Payment: Does It Automatically Become an Open Source Project = Clonable?

  • uunicode-1328697117312548884

    unicodes

    25 days ago

    Hi @Andreas Møller ,

    I’m writing this because it’s important for the community to understand what happens if a payment is missed (for any reason, including inability to afford it) and to prevent going in a grey area. An open-source project means that the community can clone it, and in some cases, cloning a project that was initially private could lead to legal implications or cause damages.

    In such situations, what happens? Will the project that was private become unavailable to new visitors, or will it automatically become open source and accessible for anyone to clone?

    I would recommend implementing a mechanism where the project becomes inaccessible to everyone (including visitors) except the developer (project owner). Additionally, it should not be published or made open source unless explicitly authorized by the owner (through payment of the plan) or deleted.

    Is it possible to have a plan where the project isn’t live (even open source), but you can continue creating in a private environment without granting visitor access (users that access your app)? For example, a plan where you pay x$ per year just to store your code and run your development environment when needed, but without access for visitors, in order to keep your maintenance costs and margins. I believe such a plan, even with a small margin and low cost, would be a success because of the affordability. Anyone would be willing to pay for having a private environment just for development (like pay to download and use Visual Studio Code, but not for publishing the code).

    Thank you and wishing you all the best!
  • andreasmoller-1328716482980352010

    Andreas Møller

    25 days ago

    Hey.

    I understand your concern. A while ago we saw a large spike in customers who simply stopped paying their invoices and did not respond to our emails, which let us to implement an automatic downscaling after 4 weeks (and several email notifications).

    I agree with your concern and going forward we will change this so that private projects get disabled after 4 weeks, this means that if you visit the site of a disabled project you will see a 404 page, and you will not be able to edit disabled projects.

    This is not intended as a way to let customser pause their payments and we preserve the right to DELETE disabled projects without further warning.

    As part of our efforts to take toddle open source we will also allow anyone to download their projects.

    I hope that makes sense and sheds some light on our policy going forward.

    Thank you for bringing the topic up!
  • uunicode-1328720153558384680

    unicodes

    25 days ago

    I completely agree with you, because in your business, you’re dealing with people who want everything for free and pay as little as possible. But instead of deleting them (it’s great that you’re not making them public and clonable, as that could make it difficult for the developer to cover legal aspects, like a client suing for losing a project over an agreement they signed, and the developer being responsible for the payment), what about adding a fee, such as $5.99 per month, just for development (one user only, no more, like a private space)? I noticed that in development, the process tends to be slower (perhaps due to slower RAM, CPU, etc.). Why not have a slower, open-source performance for development at $5.99, just for development, with no visitor access? I believe many users would prefer this over open-source and would use open-source for studying.

    I hope you don’t misunderstand my message. I want the best for Toddle and your team, and personally, I would always prefer to pay and express my gratitude for great work and ideas. However, this kind of "business model" could meet a need that may be bigger than we can imagine because is like a "Private development space that make you the owner about the ideea and the work you do, but is just development not published".

    P.S. The $5.99 is just a random figure. I don’t have any idea about your business costs, and if this kind of solution would be possible, it would be most appropriate for you to estimate the exact amount.
  • Thank you for your time and for making some light on this! 🙏
  • andreasmoller-1328742467033366723

    Andreas Møller

    25 days ago

    Hey. I get the concern, but having a fee does not really make sense in the case of missed payments.
  • uunicode-1328747352214732971

    unicodes

    25 days ago

    This makes sense in cases of missed payment due to not being able to afford it anymore. You had an idea in mind and tried to launch it, invested in a higher plan, but didn’t catch the right wave to make it successful. You failed and now want to try launching it again after saving up some money. With this plan, you can do that because your project isn’t deleted. Toddle says, “Okay, you keep your project, continue developing it, and make changes to improve its performance. Your work remains saved and private. You pay a small fee for this, and when you’re ready to try again, you can go for it and tune up the engines once more.

    We have: Toddle deletes the project = client loses the project = Toddle loses a client (it would be hard to rebuild something after losing months of work).

    VS

    Toddle keeps you in a development environment = client is happy because of a safe and private environment = Toddle continues to receive a low fee = Toddle retains a client who can return anytime to continue. = In the long term, this collaboration can turn the client into a profitable one for Toddle.

    with an if (do not pay for development environment = we delete it). And for giving it more sanse the development can be (12 months fee advance, like we take out visitors costs, just safe environment).

    Launching an app isn’t a guaranteed success, and big ideas often come from small teams with low budgets. Providing users with a "safe" space to keep their ideas and work is a sign of trust. Again, this makes sense at this stage of Toddle. When Toddle became open source. In case of failure (and hopefully it works this way), you save your copy, store it locally, save money, and try to launch again with your own server or on Toddle's server because are more performant.

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